Courtesy Family
How can the Pierre Police feel justified in tasing an 8-year-old?

SD Police Say Tasing 8-Year-Old Native Girl Was Justified, Family Sues

Vincent Schilling
8/19/14

In October 2013, An 8 year old Rosebud Sioux girl was shot by a stun gun when Pierre Police arrived on scene and were not able to obtain a paring knife the young girl was holding. In the days that followed, the family of the little girl reported she was suffering from trauma, while the Pierre Police Chief Bob Granpre said the actions of the Police were justified.

Since the incident, family members have secured the use of Dana Hanna and Patrick Duffy as attorneys in the South Dakota area and the tribe has spoken out against the incident. The Pierre police after releasing initial findings will no longer offer comment on the matter after inquiries by ICTMN.

Rose Stenstrom, the grandmother of the little girl and a member of the Rosebud Sioux Tribal council, says she was upset that her little granddaughter was a delightful and talkative little girl who some media outlets made out to be a monster.

“My granddaughter is really just a friendly little girl,” says Stenstrom. “She talks a lot. Because she likes to talk, you could change her mind really easy. I have been around her, she is not anywhere near what people describe her as. They made her out to be a little monster and she is not.”

Stenstrom also said the response to the original situation was not handled with any sort of professionalism.

“Four police officers responded to this...To a little girl who stands maybe only 4 feet tall. All you have to do is grab her arm and correct the situation. I feel that these guys must not have been in their right minds. At that age, children are very easily talked into changing their minds. I find it ridiculous because I just don't see how this could happen.” 

“In one of the articles, the police chief stated that their office was justified in what they did. They have batons and handguns, the police chief named off a number of things they could have used; this is someone who has no brains. One of the people involved in this entire situation was an instructor of the police training facility.”

“Which makes me think, Oh my God were these guys just practicing?” remarked Senstrom.

Cyril Scott, President of the Rosebud Sioux Tribe also told ICTMN, the Pierre Police acted in a way that was unprofessional and the family is appropriate in filing a lawsuit.

“The family has a lawsuit against the police and it is a sad day when a Native American child is shocked in our state capital in the middle of Indian country at that. Not only the Rosebud Sioux tribe, not only the family... But everyone should be appalled at the way our children are being treated nowadays,” said Scott.

“We tell our children not to do violence and to not be a part of violence, but if they get into trouble they are subjected to this violence. They are treating our children like they are hardened criminals nowadays.”

“On behalf of the Rosebud Sioux tribe, I say our position is we should not treat Native American children or any children of any race in this manner. We hold our Native American children on the highest pedestal, as any parent or any family should do.”

“This little girl was eight years old. It was a little girl you could just put your arms around her. I hope the man that did this to her thinks about it every day. I wonder how he would feel if someone tased his daughter,” he said.

According to the family attorney’s the acts committed by the police were atrocious and the proper steps to file suit and seek damages are currently in the works.

According to Hannah, both he and Duffy will be investigating the backgrounds of all the police officers involved, the training or lack thereof provided to law enforcement officers in the Pierre and the use of Tasers. Hanna and Duffy have also contacted and contracted an expert on the use of Tasers.

“We will particularly be investigating with regard to the use of Tasers on children, which simply should not happen,” says Hanna.

“Tasers are not meant to be lethal weapons, but they are lethal weapons they have killed people from time to time. Our investigation and our expert lead us to the conclusion that Tasers should never be used on children,” says Hanna.

“If you look at the facts, there were other ways to stop this. Rule number one is reaching out to grab her hand and I haven't even been to cop school. These are trained professional law enforcement officers and there were four of them within close proximity to that girl. Not one of them thought to reach out and grab her, or talk her down... They came in there and dealt with her like she was a 30-year-old street thug. "Drop the knife or else!"

"No Indian cop in S.D. would ever shoot an Indian girl with a Taser gun, Draw your own conclusion on that statement," Hanna said.

Duffy agrees with his fellow attorney that the Pierre Police acted unprofessional.

“It is absolutely barbaric that four adult police officers would surround a 71-pound eight-year-old little Indian girl and shoot her in the chest with 50,000 volts of electricity,” he said.

“I have 7 sons and 9 grandkids. I might have tried to talk to her for a minute or two. I don't need a baton. Depending on what her response was, I probably would have reached out like an adult and grabbed her arm and said 'that is enough of that.'

“The problem with the police response in this case and everything they have said has been designed for justification. If the only choice is between tasing and pistol whipping her, yes I guess it would make sense, but we have a lot more choices as adults,” he said. “They did not use any of these adult responses.”

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ravenhawk's picture
ravenhawk
Submitted by ravenhawk on
Remember when cops used to be "heroes"? - Now they use the term "I was afraid for my life" as the backbone to justify any use of force even if they instigate / escalate the situation. Now just a buncha sissies looking for a "green light" to waste the family pet or now .... tazer a 8 yr old!? I don't even see KKKops as human anymore.

Michael Madrid's picture
Michael Madrid
Submitted by Michael Madrid on
This is an outrage and nearly as much of one as the Michael Brown incident in Missouri. Thankfully this little girl wasn't killed by an officer. Where are the protests? Where is the anger? ____________________________________________________________ It seems to me that modern law enforcement in the U.S. is about a hair's breath away from becoming an occupying military. Whatever happened to restraint when dealing with the public (shouldn't this DOUBLE when it comes to a child?)? ____________________________________________________________ Of course we'll hear the usual excuses, "you don't know what it's like to risk your life daily," or "it's a hard job and we don't take chances," but it seems to me that if you (as a grown man and an armed representative of the law) CAN'T subdue an eight year old girl you should be a dog catcher instead of a police officer.

Lonne99's picture
Lonne99
Submitted by Lonne99 on
I'm trying to understand the context of this story, and why the police came to the house. Who called them? It is horrible that this young girl was injured. I used to teach third-graders. They are not a threat!

E_Wachira's picture
E_Wachira
Submitted by E_Wachira on
A cop who can be threatened by an 8 year old girl to the extent that he/she uses a tazer is either mentally unstable or is the worst of corwards and should never have been employed in the police. The state police dept. should fire punish the officers involved. Their excuses and justifications is height of absurdities

indianmedicine's picture
indianmedicine
Submitted by indianmedicine on
Of the Four Comments, only ONE asked about the background of the Case..... .................................................................................................................. From the THREAD, we read a vague and arbitrary statement without Supporting Facts by either Party.......................................................... .................................................................................................................. What is constant is One 8 year Old Female Child, and Four Adult Male Police Officers, One Paring Knife, and a Taser Gun at a Domestic Family Call. .................................................................................................................. There is NO mention of the reason the Police Officers were at the Residence, or the Mental & Physical Condition of The Plaintiff............................. .................................................................................................................. There is No Mention of Toxicology Report, or Follow-Up Case with Child Protective Agency.................................................................................. ................................................................................................................. The Peace Officer Safety Equipment and Escalation of Force normally is 1. Oral Restraint, 2. Chemical Spray, 3. Physical Contact / Baton, 4. Taser, 5. Deadly Force ..................................................................................... .................................................................................................................. Questions: Why were Police Summoned ?......................................... ................................................................................................................. Why was the Child holding a Pairing Knife ?...................................... .................................................................................................................. Was there ANY threatening statements made toward anyone, and what where they?......................................................................................................... .................................................................................................................. Were there any threatening gestures made, and who were they made toward? .................................................................................................................. Was the Child under the influence of Drugs or Alcohol that would have diminished her capacity to reason ?.................................................... ................................................................................................................. Are there any Officer Cams or Dash Cams photographing the event? ................................................................................................................. What is the Department Policy on Use of Force?.............................. ................................................................................................................. These Questions are not answered in this Thread, and a Jury would certainly ask these Questions before making a Finding...................................... ................................................................................................................. The Families "Child Profile" is understood to have some bias; and their observations are from a lay opinion ................................................... ................................................................................................................ Before the Reader comes to a conclusion, you need more facts and NOT emotional testimony............................................................................. ............................................................................................................... If the Child's character and behaviour were induced by being under the influence of any substance, then that also played into the Escalation of Force Decision by Responding Officers...................................................... ............................................................................................................... There is also no mention of Family defusing the situation, and why they were not successful; necessitating Law Enforcement Response........... .............................................................................................................. Remember, Anybody can " Sue Another ", but there is necessity to Properly State A Case, with Offers of Proof................................................... .............................................................................................................

Justiceinmo's picture
Justiceinmo
Submitted by Justiceinmo on
This rediculous. Does anyone haver the contact info for that police department? Would be glad to call everyday to demand justice.

angelfish's picture
angelfish
Submitted by angelfish on
I could understand if the child had a GUN. I don't want to add fuel to the fire but if 4 grown men trained for robberies, terrorist attacks, fear for their lives from a little girl with a knife, there's a bigger issue here.

MysticMuggle's picture
MysticMuggle
Submitted by MysticMuggle on
BTW... Years (and years) ago, I babysat a young boy who jumped on my back holding a knife. I was 14. I threw him off my back and hit his hand against the floor and took the knife away from him. Didn't have to use a tazer, or a gun. Seriously, Pierre Police?

Philip Diver III
Philip Diver III
Submitted by Philip Diver III on
In this day and age of technology it is easy to find out the cause for such actions. I to believe it was excessive force to use a tazer on an 8 year old child. The reason they were called is she threatened suicide. The babysitter should have tried to reason with the child or even called the parents to come and diffuse the situation. The police were not in any danger from the eight year old unless she verbally threatened them with bodily harm. This according to the news report i just read is not the case. As adults they should have tried talking first, then they could have had an officer circle behind and remove the pare knife from the childs hand. They also should have had some one from child services there who are trained in talking to children be there. There was some much they could have done differently they the parents should sue. This will not bring the child back but it should bring about change in how officers respond to child cases.

hesutu's picture
hesutu
Submitted by hesutu on
Hi indianmedicine, you asked about the background. There's not much other coverage of this case, but there are a couple articles you can find googling "Bobby Jones taser" as Bobby Jones is the father's name. The girl was with a baby sitter and had picked up a paring knife. The baby sitter felt the only way to handle this was to call 911 and request immediate police assistance. The police showed up and tased the girl. Some reports say she was throwing a tantrum. Others just mention she picked up the knife for unknown reasons. I personally think it's normal for an 8 yr old to be allowed to use a paring knife, they are definitely old enough to peel vegetables and fruits by that age. There are many who are defending this. There are also many who, I think reasonably, argue that the police should be able to get a paring knife from a small girl without electrocuting her with a weapon of torture and pain.

hesutu's picture
hesutu
Submitted by hesutu on
indianmedicine, I found the police report. It has far more details than the news accounts report. http://www.drgnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Report-on-2013-Tasing-Incident.pdf According to the report, the baby sitter said the girl was threatening to kill herself with the knife, had tried to stab herself, and pointed the knife at the sitter when the sitter tried to disarm her. The dispatcher reported to the responding police that it was a suicide attempt and the person had attempted to stab themselves. So when the police arrived they were of the mind set that there was an suicide in progress, which is a very serious situation. During their encounter they first tried to disarm her, but she stabbed at the police. After back and forth, they then used the taser. If it happened as it is reported by police and by the baby sitter, then it seems the other reports are leaving out important details.

Lela's picture
Lela
Submitted by Lela on
It appears that the militarized Police Services in US, is out of control... Tazering a child, has no rhyme or reason... Shame!

Michael Madrid's picture
Michael Madrid
Submitted by Michael Madrid on
To Indianmedicine below: Commendable that you're asking for more facts for an unbiased view of the situation, but the fact remains; an adult with minimal training should be able to disarm a child with anything short of a firearm without anyone getting hurt. ____________________________________________________________ Before the, "you don't know what it's like," excuse is thrown out there, I'd like to counter with I DO know what it's like. I was a Security Policeman in the Air Force and would sometimes be recruited to work law enforcement when their units were short. I've responded to several domestic disturbances resulting in violence and one involving a severely irate, inebriated ADULT male who was a Vietnam combat veteran and armed with a steak knife. Myself and one other officer subdued him AND managed not to be injured by the man's family (who he had beaten badly before we got there - the reason we were called) who attacked us from behind while trying to subdue the man. ________________________________________________________ Secondly, I am an Apat Guro (a fourth level teacher) of the Filipino art of Eskrima (or Kali), a martial art that concentrates on the use of sticks and knives. I'm perfectly aware of the dangers of disarming an attacker with a blade, and I'm perfectly aware of how luck influences any armed encounter, but we're NOT talking about a drug-crazed maniac, we're talking about an 8 year old girl.

DianaE's picture
DianaE
Submitted by DianaE on
According to this story this is the background, HOWEVER it is extremely difficult to believe that 4 officers could not have handled it a different way ... this is a child!!! I am disgusted by today's so called police (link underneath) According to police reports, officers arrived at the girl’s home after a babysitter called them saying the girl was holding a knife and threatening to hurt herself. Upon arriving, officers instructed the girl to drop the knife — described as a paring knife — and, after failing to comply, one of the officers shot her in the chest with his Taser. According to the lawsuit, “The force of the electricity shot through her body, lifted her and threw her against the wall.After the officers had stunned L.M.J. into high voltage submission, they pulled the fish-hook like Taser darts from her chest, gave her emergency medical attention, bandaged the holes left by the razor-sharp hooks and called an ambulance.” According to Hanna, being shot with about 50,000 volts of electricity has left the girl traumatized psychologically and emotionally in addition to her physical injuries. Hanna stated, “There is no excuse for cops to use a Taser on an eight-year-old child.” Officers maintain the girl pointed the knife at them before placing it against her chest. Following an investigation, the South Dakota Division of Criminal Investigation ruled that the officer acted appropriately. Pierre police chief Robert Grandpre has defended the officers, saying, “He [the officer who deployed the Taser] quite possibly saved the juvenile’s life that night.” http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/08/mother-files-suit-after-her-8-year-old-is-tasered-by-police-for-wielding-a-knife/

Guyver_IV's picture
Guyver_IV
Submitted by Guyver_IV on
As a mixed blood and someone who has been raised in the Native ways that the Elderly, children, and women are sacred and trying to get into the Law Enforcement Field, I was appalled by this. Those officers SHOULD have found another way to stop her from hurting herself. Get her to open up to them, trust them enough to allow them to approach her. Or in the worst case scenario be the officer that she focuses on and have another secure her in a way that doesn't harm themselves and most importantly does not risk harming and or traumatizing the child. Not straight out tazing her.

indianmedicine's picture
indianmedicine
Submitted by indianmedicine on
I want to thank " hesutu & Michael Madrid " for their response and Case Update, it is appreciated that you went to that trouble to inform the rest of us to make an informed decision on the Case.......................................................... ............................................................................................................................... My background is in Law Enforcement and Military, as a California State Certified Peace Officer, and Community College Instructor of Criminal Justice & Administration, & Military Science.............................................................. ............................................................................................................................ I also was a LE Field Training Officer, and Escrima & KAJUKENBO Instructor for LE................................................................................................................. ........................................................................................................................... I was also a Federal Criminal Investigator, Civil Law and Military - and am Honorably Retired.......................................................................................... ......................................................................................................................... In my Post, I mentioned Use of Force, & surfaced Escalation of Force for the Readers that are without Law Enforcement background, because that's what goes through LE minds when they get a Call.................................................... .................................................................................................................................. What the Readers are doing is looking at the Equation of One versus Four, and the PRESUMED Physical abilities of the Officers...................................... ................................................................................................................................. The Officers are required to use "Reasonable Force" for a situation, and given latitude from Verbal to Lethal Force as an "Industry Standard"...................... ............................................................................................................................... The Officers are NOT required to give the "edge" to any Person of Interest, Suspect, or Defendant - they do NOT get paid to loose................................... ................................................................................................................................ Each Peace Officer has their own style and technique they use everyday they hit the Beat, and what works for one - may not work for another - simple as that - you develop your own "In The Field Style of Police Work", as goes with any Profession............................................................................................................ ............................................................................................................................... What I read in comments, was a "Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda" critique based on little to no Facts to go by..................................................................................... ............................................................................................................................... The Readers are CORRECT in Questioning the Answers, to insure as much Truth and Fact is presented before a Finding is made.................................... ............................................................................................................................... We can only make a determination based on the information presented on any Question................................................................................................................ ............................................................................................................................... There is also some responsibility by the Reporting Party to provide as much information to the Event as possible, but a 14 Year Old Baby Sitter also is not an Adult, and not experienced as an Adult - so you go with what you have.... ................................................................................................................................ This Case does NOT stop at the Police Chiefs Desk. a Government Prosecutor Reviews the Case and Evidence, a Defense Attorney also Reviews the Case and Evidence, and The Court and Juvenile Authorities also Review the Case before The Court is in Session............................................. ................................................................................................................................ I presume that Child Protective Agency will provide a Case Report for The Court to Review before a Decision is made, and of course if it is determined that Excessive Force was used, that will surface.............................................. ................................................................................................................................ If the Police Command believe that Excessive Force was used, then the Command will refer the Case to Internal Affairs, and if a determination is made that the Officers were in the Wrong; as "Out of Policy Conduct"; then the Chief may make a decision as to a Criminal Complaint or an Administrative Action, may be taken by The Agency.................................................................................. ................................................................................................................................... These type Cases are not "Slam Dunk Decided", and the Public for the most part are unaware of the internal Checks & Balances used in most if not all LE Agencies................................................................................................................ ................................................................................................................................ This all takes place before the options of a Grand Jury Review is looked at, so this is not just swept into a corner like many think............................................ ............................................................................................................................... Again, I thank those that shed some insight on this Question, but BOTH sides are entitled to Due Process and Fair Play in any Legal Question................. .............................................................................................................................. - De Oppresso Liber -........................................................................................ .............................................................................................................................. By the way, if you don't like how things are done, get involved positively and make it better - and you do that by putting Good People into the System to make it work......................................................................................................... ...............................................................................................................................

thisandthat's picture
thisandthat
Submitted by thisandthat on
Everyone says to just take the knife from the girl. When you get cut or stabbed don't worry she will get off easy and you'll have a nice scar and maybe nerve pain to remind you to tazer next time. I'm sorry but if you come at the police with a weapon your getting taken down. Life lesson. Better to learn now then be an adult and find out. Also 8 years old is not young enough to candy from a baby something from their grasps. A kid can do damage. Only difference is they will get off light compared to an adult. What do you think the cops are going to do? Ninja snatch the knife out of her hand? A paring knife isn't a long knife but it's still a knife.

thisandthat's picture
thisandthat
Submitted by thisandthat on
Everyone says to just take the knife from the girl. When you get cut or stabbed don't worry she will get off easy and you'll have a nice scar and maybe nerve pain to remind you to tazer next time. I'm sorry but if you come at the police with a weapon your getting taken down. Life lesson. Better to learn now then be an adult and find out. Also 8 years old is not young enough to candy from a baby something from their grasps. A kid can do damage. Only difference is they will get off light compared to an adult. What do you think the cops are going to do? Ninja snatch the knife out of her hand? A paring knife isn't a long knife but it's still a knife.

Grayhorse's picture
Grayhorse
Submitted by Grayhorse on
This is sad, tasing an eight year old girl. What was they thinking, or we're they thinking? Something needs to be done so hopefully this will never happen to another child. Some people should never carry a gun or taser. Some people should never be aloud to be come Police Officers. I hope you win your law suit.

builds-the-fire's picture
builds-the-fire
Submitted by builds-the-fire on
Thanks for more background, everyone. I have to agree, there is no way to justify shooting a child with a Taser gun. The officers knew that they were on the way to a call involving a possible suicide attempt by an 8-year-old little girl. Seeing 4 people with guns and uniforms enter your home has to make you a little anxious. Imagine a child having to deal with that, and in a state of mind to commit suicide. The police department could have coordinated and sent in ONE person who has children/nieces/nephews, and therefore knows how to talk WITH children. All they probably had to do was show empathy, and just listen to her. Get her to open up about WHY she wanted to commit suicide. And then help her see WHY she should live despite her current circumstances. Apparently they had all day to do this--4 of them entered the home, so apparently, no other calls where in need of service. But instead of hunkering down and conversing with her, they rushed her so that they could pat themselves on the back. Pointing a knife at someone and telling them you want to commit suicide is language for "please listen to me". If she were going to commit suicide, she wouldn't have pointed the knife, instead she WOULD have just plunged it into herself. There is no way to justify what these officers did to that little girl, and they need to admit that to themselves.

builds-the-fire's picture
builds-the-fire
Submitted by builds-the-fire on
p.s.: I hope this little one is doing better. I look at her picture, and I see a "why...give-me-an-answer-baby". I see spunk, and a level head. I also see a person who will probably be a great leader among all peoples. I'd say to her: let the "why's" go for now, but keep them in your heart. There will be plenty of time for answers later. Grow strong, learn, and believe the good dream God has placed within your heart. It will be.

Michael Madrid's picture
Michael Madrid
Submitted by Michael Madrid on
To DianaE below: Thanks for posting the complete story. I'm STILL angry that an investigation deemed this "justified." _____________________________________________________________ I'm in disbelief of this, however: "Officers maintain the girl pointed the knife at them before placing it against her chest. Following an investigation, the South Dakota Division of Criminal Investigation ruled that the officer acted appropriately." ___________________________________________________________ So . . . the departmental policy is apparently "we are willing to hurt those who threaten to hurt themselves, no matter what the age?" How's THAT for equal opportunity assholiness?

Kira Maleficent Phoenix
Kira Maleficent...
Submitted by Kira Maleficent... on
Not saying what the cop was right, but, why the heck was 8 year old running around with a paring knife in the first place?

Isi's picture
Isi
Submitted by Isi on
How about "Put the knife down"? Worked when my friend's babysitter called me about the (mentally ill)11 year old threatening everyone with a butcher knife. I took him to my house to get him away from the other kids and he was fine. One calm adult, kind but firm. This little girl was 8! There were 5 adults! No one could figure out how to help her collect herself?

Cathy Evans Elliott
Cathy Evans Elliott
Submitted by Cathy Evans Elliott on
For those who want the background, here's the official investigation notes from the original OCt 2013 incident. To me it sounds like this child needs more help than the family is giving her. Why would an 8 year try to kill herself? http://www.drgnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Report-on-2013-Tasing-Incident.pdf

Michael Davis
Michael Davis
Submitted by Michael Davis on
@ Michael Madrid I'm sorry but you, me, or any other person does not have enough information about the Michael Brown shooting to label it an outrage. Not enough information has been released and too many have reacted emotionaly instead of logically by suspending judgement until all the facts are known. We know he was unarmed but there are plenty of scenarios where deadly force is justified against an unarmed individual. You simply do not have the facts to call it an "outrage" and when I say facts I mean actual facts not speculation or outright lies like he was shot 10 times in the back. I direct the same criticism at the group of people who have raised 275 thousand dollars on the officers behalf. They simply do not have enough facts to do that. When it comes to this little girl the only facts that any reasonable person needs to know is that there were four fully grown men and one eight year old girl. A reasonable man would have talked the knife out of the little girls hand and if that failed one of the other cops could have grabbed her from behind. In regards to the Brown shooting there is an 18yo male who was involved in a robbery, and yes the cop actually did know about the robbery despite the initial reports, and a possible assault on a leo combined with an attempt to unholster his weapon. The last part is not confirmed hence the word possible. Again there are not enough facts to make a judgement like so many have. Especially opportunistic looters who couldn't care less about Michael Brown.

Michael Madrid's picture
Michael Madrid
Submitted by Michael Madrid on
To Michael Davis: So, you're going to use the "you don't have all the info to make an informed decision," excuse on me regarding Michael Brown's killing, but you turn around and do the same thing regarding this little girl: ________________________________________________________ " They simply do not have enough facts to do that. When it comes to this little girl the only facts that any reasonable person needs to know is that there were four fully grown men and one eight year old girl. A reasonable man would have talked the knife out of the little girls hand and if that failed one of the other cops could have grabbed her from behind." ________________________________________________________-- How do you know this little girl wasn't a gang member? How do you know she hasn't assaulted anyone else with a knife? How do you know she wasn't "hopped up" on PCP? How do you know she wasn't a dwarf hired and trained by the C.I.A? It appears that you likely don't have "the whole story" either yet that didn't stop you from conjecture, did it? ___________________________________________________________ Both of us can play at the "what if" game, but only one of us thought to chastise the other for doing it. I'll tell you what - YOU tell me in what instance you think it's okay to shoot and kill an unarmed teen, and I'll tell you when I would have supported these officers tazing an 8 year old girl. ____________________________________________________________ By the way, most "reasonable men" would realize that a knife can't hear. That would make it impossible to "talk the knife out of her hand," wouldn't it?

Charlie Wilson
Charlie Wilson
Submitted by Charlie Wilson on
Say what you like. I do not care why the cops were call, if the child was on drugs or mentally disturbed. If she had a gun and talking did no good I could see tazing her, but a paring knife. And four grown men that are suppose to be trained to take down a grown man with their hands had to taze this child. If they were to afraid to try to grab her hand a good slap in the face would have made her drop that knife. cowards is what they are or just sadistic bastard.

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